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Frontier: Here Today, Gone Tomorrow

Phillip Dampier May 5, 2009 Frontier 17 Comments

The month long experiment with Frontier DSL ended today when I canceled the service.  Frontier Communications of Rochester is the only broadband competitor for Time Warner in the Flower City, advertising speeds up to 10Mbps.  The key words there are “up to” and the fine print where they disclose they do not guarantee speed is something very important to consider, because they mean it.

FrontierI have to say that Frontier’s second tier of customer support personnel are friendly, helpful, and accommodating, which is a net plus for them.  The front line customer service representatives in DeLand, Florida are another matter.  They do not know their own products, messed up my account twice, and one managed to refer to their wireless network in this city as “wee-fee” for several weeks before I corrected her.  She was surprised when I explained it was pronounced “why-fi.”

Frontier tries, but is stuck with yesterday’s copper wire technology, and the problems simply mount from there.  In addition to waiting nearly a month for a self-install kit to arrive (it never did – I picked one up at a local Frontier “store”), a service call was required to get anything above 320Kbps for downloads.  After a helpful installer did some rewiring and did some line-checking, we managed to top out at 3.1Mbps down downloads, about 500Kbps for uploads.  That is in comparison to Road Runner locally, which has a Turbo product delivering 15Mbps/1Mbps service for around the same price, without a two year contract.

Frontier’s DSL problem is the same one facing every telephone company relying on copper wire — the farther away you are from the central office switch, the slower your maximum speed will be.  At just over 10,000 feet from the Field Street exchange in southeast Rochester, our home in Brighton maxed out at 3.1Mbps.  If the service was $15-20 less than Road Runner, that might make sense, but for the price they were asking, it’s simply not worth it.

Frontier has implemented a 30-day trial for their “high speed online” products, so at least you have time to evaluate the product and determine whether it will work at your location.  Had it delivered 6+Mbps service, I probably would have kept it as a backup provider.  It’s definitely customer friendly to allow customers a month to figure out if DSL will work for them without subjecting them to a potentially devastating early termination fee of $200-300, so I applaud Frontier for having that policy.

Of course, it also took several hours to straighten out a messed up phone bill, but credits seemed easy enough to obtain when you deal with a second level customer service representative.  They are a pleasure to work with.

Another nagging concern for me was a contract obligation they ask you to commit to in an e-mail message sent to your Frontier mailbox.  They are really trying to find a way to get you to commit to a potentially capped future, even if they don’t have a cap today.  The relevant language is highlighted in red, with an interesting addition that attempts to bind you to any limits that may be established in the future.  Good luck trying to hold people to that when it represents a materially adverse change from your current marketing material and website specifying no current limit, nor any defined extra charge for exceeding whatever that might be later on.  Should they try to retroactively impose that, if a cap returns, we’ll be helping a lot of customers get out of their contracts without any early termination fees just like we did last summer.

A copy of the contract they send to your e-mail account is attached below.

My representative did tell me the company is trying to do limited fiber optic deployments in the Rochester area, but it’s the best kept secret in town if true on any significant scale.  They are more aggressively trying to deploy mini-switches in areas around each exchange to reduce the cable lengths from the central office to individual customers, in hopes of delivering more consistent speeds.  It’s a good stop gap measure, but honestly, the days of copper broadband are quickly passing us by.

So, the reality remains that for many broadband customers, there is only one player in this part of western New York that can deliver high speed Internet: Time Warner Cable.  Until another equivalent competitor arrives, this area will always be prone to facing “experiments” and disparity of speed and pricing between our community and those with more robust competition from Verizon’s FiOS — fiber to the home network.

Frontier Communications Terms and Conditions

BUNDLED AND HIGH-SPEED INTERNET SERVICES TERMS AND CONDITIONS

THIS ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT IS A LEGALLY BINDING AGREEMENT AND DESCRIBES THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH FRONTIER COMMUNICATIONS AND ITS AFFILIATES (“FRONTIER” OR “WE”) WILL PROVIDE “YOU” AS THE CUSTOMER WITH HIGH-SPEED INTERNET SERVICE AND/OR OTHER BUNDLED SERVICES, INCLUDING CERTAIN ENHANCED FEATURES AND LONG DISTANCE SERVICE (“Service”). AT THE END OF THIS AGREEMENT YOU WILL BE ASKED WHETHER YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS. YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT TO RECEIVE DISCOUNTED SERVICE AND/OR THE “FREE” OR PROMOTIONAL OFFER.

YOU WILL HAVE TO USE THE SCROLL BAR TO SEE ALL OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS

TERM COMMITMENT AND RENEWAL

You understand and agree that You must continue to purchase the Services for a minimum term to receive any promotional offer. You agree to keep the Frontier Services during this initial term and all renewals. If you purchased Frontier Services with a two (2) year or longer Price Protection Plan and you cancel a Frontier Service or Services early, You agree to pay Frontier a termination fee of $200. If you purchased Frontier Services as part of the 1st Quarter 2009 promotion with a Dell Mini Netbook, you agree to pay Frontier a termination fee of $300. If you purchased Digital Phone Essentials or High Speed Internet Lite with a two (2) year or longer Price Protection Plan and you cancel one of these Services early, You agree to pay Frontier a termination fee of $50. If you purchased High Speed Internet as part of a promotion to change from Frontier dial-up Internet, You may be allowed to convert back to dial-up Internet without a termination fee. If You Purchase a package including DISH Network service either as part of a promotion or another offer, You may be subject to a different or additional term commitment and termination fee with DISH Network for DISH Network services. If You move your residence out of Frontier’s service territory and have received a promotion from Frontier including a Free Dell Mini Netbook, Frontier will impose a termination fee for disconnection of Service. If You have not received such a promotion we will not impose a termination fee if You move your residence out of Frontier’s service territory. If we terminate your service due to any breach of the terms and conditions in this Agreement, You will remain liable for the termination fees under this Agreement.

The term commitment under this Agreement will automatically renew at the end of the term unless You notify Frontier or have notified Frontier or We notify You of termination before the term commitment period ends. The price for the Services during a renewal term will be the then-current price for Services at the beginning of the renewal term for a commitment period of the same length excluding any promotional prices. Price protection will apply during a renewal term on the same basis as it applies during the initial term. If You do not renew your term commitment, additional and/or different service and equipment charges may apply.

SERVICE AND EQUIPMENT CHARGES

Unless otherwise prohibited by law or tariff, your rates for Service are governed by this Agreement with Frontier. The applicable charges for the Frontier Service were identified at the time Service was ordered and will remain in effect during the price protection term of this Agreement. Additional monthly equipment charges for a Frontier-supplied modem will also apply during the term of this Agreement. Frontier may, in its sole discretion, change or modify the rates You are charged for other services or equipment at any time except for the Frontier Service to which price protection applies. We may notify You of any such changes by posting notice of such changes on this website or sending notice via e-mail or postal mail or on your bill. If You continue to use the other services or equipment after notice of such change You accept any such modification. If You do not agree to any modification made by Frontier, You must notify Frontier.

You agree that Frontier, in its sole discretion, may continue to provide and charge You for Service if You terminate, port or otherwise discontinue your basic telephone service and/or other services with Frontier.

PAYMENTS

Frontier will bill You monthly for all charges associated with the Services. Payment in full is due no later than the due date indicated on your bill. You are responsible for paying any taxes, surcharges, fees and assessments imposed from time to time in connection with these Services. If You have authorized payment for services or equipment by credit card or by debiting a bank account, no additional notice or consent is required before We invoice the credit card or debit the bank account for all amounts due to us for any reason. We may accept late payments, partial payments or any payments marked as being “payment in full” or as being settlement of any dispute without losing any of our rights under this agreement. You agree to pay costs and fees we incur to collect any unpaid balance from You including attorney’s fees. A reasonable handling charge, not less than $10.00, will be assessed for all checks returned for insufficient funds, closed account or any other insufficiency or discrepancy. Interest at the rate of 1.5% per month (unless a lower rate is prescribed by law, in which event at the highest rate allowed by law) may be applied in accordance with Frontier’s standard credit policy to any unpaid amount commencing 20 days after the statement date. This late payment fee will be in addition to and not in lieu of any other remedies we may have hereunder or under the law. If We do not receive notice of a payment dispute within 90 days after your receipt of a bill, the bill will not be subject to further challenge.

EQUIPMENT AND SECURITY

High-Speed Internet service is subject to availability and technical line qualification. Installation options vary and charges may apply. Until the price protection term commitment has been fulfilled and all other amounts billed have been paid in full, Frontier shall retain a security interest in any equipment provided through or by Frontier as a “free” or promotional offer to secure payment for the Services under this Agreement. This Agreement shall constitute a security agreement and financing statement as those terms are defined in the Uniform Commercial Code. You will promptly execute any additional documents or instruments requested by Frontier to protect Frontier’s interests.

All High-Speed Internet equipment provided by us or installed by or on our behalf remains the property of Frontier. You must return all equipment in the same condition as when provided, normal wear and use excepted, upon termination of Service. Failure to do so will result in a charge to be determined with reference to Frontier’s then current schedule of equipment charge. You agree to pay such charge whether such equipment is lost (through theft or otherwise) or destroyed.

You are responsible for the security of your computer, hardware, software applications, data and files. Frontier shall have no liability for any damage or loss to your computer, hardware, software applications, data and files. We make no representation or warranty that any software or content installed on your computer(s) or downloaded with the Service does not contain a virus or other harmful feature and it is your sole responsibility to take appropriate precautions to protect any computer or other hardware of yours from damage to its software, files or data as a result of any such virus or other harmful feature.

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY AND INDEMNITY

We will not be liable for interruptions in Services caused by failure of your hardware or software, failure of communications services, power outages, or other interruptions not within the complete control of Frontier, including, but not limited to: acts of God; acts of the public enemy; acts of the United States, a state or other political subdivision; fire, floods or other natural disasters; accidents; wars; labor disputes or shortages; and inability to obtain material, power, equipment or transportation.

FRONTIER’S LIABILITY REGARDING YOUR USE OF SERVICES OR EQUIPMENT, OR THE FAILURE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SERVICES OR EQUIPMENT, IS LIMITED TO THE CHARGES YOU INCUR FOR SERVICES DURING THE AFFECTED PERIOD. THIS MEANS WE ARE NOT LIABLE FOR ANY INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (SUCH AS LOST PROFITS OR LOST BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES), PUNITIVE OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, OR ATTORNEY’S FEES.

You agree that Frontier will not be liable or responsible for any third-party claims or damages that arise from your use or another person’s use of the Services or Internet access, further, You agree to indemnify and reimburse us for all costs and expenses related to the defense of any such claims, including attorney’s fees. This provision will continue to apply after the Agreement ends.

NO WARRANTIES

We make no representation or warranty regarding the actual speed of High-Speed Internet or other Services provided by Frontier. Actual speed may vary and depend on several factors, including Customer location, equipment, and traffic on the Internet.

FRONTIER MAKES NO WARRANTY REGARDING THE SERVICES AND DISCLAIMS ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY, INCLUDING ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

ACCEPTABLE USE AND TERMINATION

You agree not to use or to allow others to use the Service, for illegal or inappropriate activities, including but not limited to invading another person’s privacy; unlawfully using, possessing, posting, transmitting or disseminating obscene, profane or pornographic material; posting, transmitting, distributing or disseminating content which is unlawful, threatening, abusive, harassing, libelous, slanderous, defamatory or otherwise offensive or objectionable. You agree to comply with Frontier’s Acceptable Use Policy (“AUP”), which Frontier may modify at any time. The current AUP is available for review at the following address, subject to change: https://frontier.com/~/media/corporate/policies/aup-residential.ashx

You must comply with all Frontier network, bandwidth, data storage and usage limitations. Customers must ensure that their use of the Service, including the amount of data sent or received in the course of a month or shorter periods, does not exceed the limitations that are now in effect or may be established in the future as disclosed in Frontier’s acceptable use policy found at https://frontier.com/~/media/corporate/policies/aup-residential.ashx. Frontier may suspend, terminate or apply additional charges to the Service if such usage exceeds a reasonable amount of usage as defined in the acceptable use policy.

We may discontinue or terminate Service: (1) if You do not honor any provision of this Agreement (including payment obligations to Frontier for these or any other services); (2) if You use the Service in a manner that adversely affects service to other customers or harasses our customers or employees; (3) if You or others use the Service to engage in fraud or unlawful conduct or are suspected of doing so; or (4) any regulatory agency, legislative body or court restricts or otherwise prevents Frontier from furnishing Service. If we do not remedy any ongoing breach of the terms and conditions in this Agreement within thirty (30) days after Frontier’s receipt of written notice from You of such breach, you may terminate the Service, which is your exclusive remedy for a breach by Frontier.

GENERAL TERMS

You agree to the following general terms:

a) No Waiver – No waiver of any breach of this Agreement will be deemed a waiver of any future breach;

b) Severability – If any part of the Agreement is held invalid or unenforceable, the remainder of this Agreement will remain in force;

c) Governing Law – This agreement will be governed by the laws of the State where the Service is provided, without regard to its choice of law rules;

d) No Third Party Rights – This Agreement shall not provide any third party with a remedy, claim or right of reimbursement;

e) Assignment – We may assign this Agreement to another entity without any advance consent from or notice to You. You may not assign this Agreement without Frontier’s consent.

RIGHT TO MAKE CHANGES

UNLESS OTHERWISE PROHIBITED BY LAW, FRONTIER MAY CHANGE THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME BY GIVING YOU 30 DAYS NOTICE BY BILL MESSAGE, E-MAIL OR OTHER NOTICE, INCLUDING POSTING NOTICE OF SUCH CHANGES ON THE FRONTIER WEBSITE.

ENTIRE AGREEMENT

These terms and conditions together with the service order are the entire agreement between You and Frontier, which may only be amended as described above. These terms and conditions supersede any inconsistent or additional promises made to You by any of our employees or agents

By signing below You: (1) Acknowledge that You have read and understand the terms and conditions; (2) Agree to be bound by the terms and conditions; and (3) Are entering into a binding contract with Frontier for the purchase of Services that may be price protected with a term commitment and early termination charge.

ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE

By clicking the button below labeled “I Agree” you:

(1) Acknowledge that you have read and understand the Terms and Conditions in the text window above;

(2) Agree to be bound by the Terms and Conditions;

(3) Are entering into a binding contract with Frontier for the purchase of goods or services that may be price protected with a term commitment and early termination charge; and

(4) Are signing this agreement using your electronic signature.

If you click the “I Do Not Agree” button you will be charged a higher monthly rate for the Service and You will not be eligible for the any “free” or promotional offer.

Under federal and state law, an electronic signature like this one is just as binding as manually signing a paper document.

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Tim
Tim
14 years ago

I read somewhere on Frontiers site that they have an “unofficial” cap of 5GB/month. I remember they said something like they could cut you off if you exceeded that and that 5GB/month is more than enough for an user. Here it is… “High Speed Internet Access Service Customers may not resell High Speed Internet Access Service (“Service”) without a legal and written agency agreement with Frontier. Customers may not retransmit the Service or make the Service available to anyone outside the premises (i.e., wi-fi or other methods of networking). Customers may not use the Service to host any type of… Read more »

Smith6612
Smith6612
14 years ago

Sorry to hear about Frontier not working out Phil. I do feel your pain though. Frontier won’t give me anything higher than 3Mbps even though my line can do 6Mbps without issues (but only businesses get 6Mbps really). My Verizon line can do 5Mbps at it’s distance, 7.1Mbps with ADSL2+ so really, that’s the fact of it. I’m getting FiOS as soon as it rolls around where I am, which should be a year or two anyways. Also, I didn’t hear any word about fiber optics being rolled out in Rochester, but I can certainly do some digging for some… Read more »

dwgsp
dwgsp
14 years ago
Reply to  Smith6612

Not sure what you mean by “but only businesses get 6Mbps really”. I consistently get 6 Mbps download speeds at home when I run speedtest, and I have residential service.

Uncle Ken
Uncle Ken
14 years ago
Reply to  dwgsp

What sort of speed test? Does it stay in their system or make a few jumps out of their system. Do you live next to their main hub of have a green relay box in the front yard? Both Phil and Mr. Smith have told their storys and the best they can get is 3Gig if that. Could you explain how you get 6gig and they dont. Phil is 10,000 feet away Mr. Smith doing some math figures Phil is like like 13,000 feet away well within limits. Add another 10,000 feet and it aint going to work. Why would… Read more »

Uncle Ken
Uncle Ken
14 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Ken

There are 2 ways to fight this the government but not the people in charge right now lord bring back Spitzer not as the governor but as the AG of NY there was a guy with very sharp teeth. So he fooled around big deal most everybody does it just wont admit it. Paterson is a train wreck as business leaves as fast as they can load up the trucks. The second is a loyalty pledge to you favorite fiber company. You come here I will sign up. They would have hard numbers before they even came here Great little… Read more »

Smith6612
Smith6612
14 years ago
Reply to  dwgsp

The reason I can’t get anything faster than 3Mbps is because in my area, Frontier MAX for residential lines is 3Mbps, and it’s what I have, and I’m synced properly at the full 3Mbps profile (3.7Mbps downstream sync), with 24+dB SNR remaining. They only give the business class users in my area the 6Mbps speeds. My line is more than capable of exceeding 6Mbps as it is close enough. Also, every Remote as well as the central office in my area has Fiber Optic fueling them, so bandwidth is certainly not an issue. @Uncle Ken: Any DSL provider will turn… Read more »

Mazakman
Mazakman
14 years ago

Decisions, decisions. At least I do know that they would let me make a one year commitment and with a month’s grace period maybe I should give them another try here. It is just that ever since this cap business started I have been wanting to send less of my hard earned money to Time Warner. Can’t figure out why that is !

Smith6612
Smith6612
14 years ago
Reply to  Mazakman

Natural Thought process I assume. 🙂

Mazakman
Mazakman
14 years ago
Reply to  Smith6612

Correct you are my friend !

Rob
Rob
14 years ago

weefee!! hahahahaha… Is that taking a wee for a fee?

KP
KP
14 years ago

Phil, a question: did you keep your Time Warner account active during the 30 days? If not, how easy was the cancellation/re-activation process? Any delays, fees etc? Thanks.

Mazakman
Mazakman
14 years ago
Reply to  KP

I think that I can answer that for Phil. He never cancelled his RR … that is for sure. I may be in the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned to this website…if I do cancel RR to go with DSL I will be posting about my experience.

Uncle Ken
Uncle Ken
14 years ago
Reply to  Mazakman

Mazakman” I have a nosy question. Why would you cancel right now?
So far nobody has done anything it has been nothing but words. Are you having other issues with TW? You do not have to reply if you do not want to after all is is private matter.

Mazakman
Mazakman
14 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Ken

Well one reason is that I don’t trust Time Warner. Another reason is that I had Frontier DSL for 3 months last year between March and June. I have one of their remote stations right around the corner from me… about a quarter of a mile away and I know from my last experience with them that I was seeing some pretty darn good speed. The reason why we returned to TW last year was because of the latency that we were seeing on the DSL connection. I have a feeling that this issue has been corrected by now because… Read more »

Mazakman
Mazakman
14 years ago

Frontier is coming Thursday morning to install DSL. They waived my install fee. I shall give everyone here an honest assessment of what I see the second time around at this residence. Roadrunner will remain active while I am deciding on Frontier.

mark devoll
14 years ago

this site seems to be about bitching about dsl and nothing to do with the 5 gig cap. i have not heard about anyone being affected by the 5 gig cap. i use about 40 to 50 gigs a month at least and havnt herd a word about it.

Smith6612
Smith6612
14 years ago
Reply to  mark devoll

The cap hasn’t really been put in place, more or less enforced yet so that’s why we haven’t really gotten any word about people getting affected. Surely once they place the cap, we’ll start getting complaints.

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