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Cable Company Hassles Make Life Difficult for Newest DVR Competitor: TiVo’s Roamio

TiVo Roamio DVR

TiVo Roamio DVR

The newest entry in the should-be-more-competitive world of Digital Video Recorders (DVRs) might have gotten five stars from reviewers willing to play down the device’s asking price, but the biggest hurdle of all isn’t its cost, it is the complexity of getting it to work properly with your cable provider.

TiVo’s new Roamio was designed to declutter your viewing experience. It’s a DVR that can record shows you missed, an online video device that can stream content from Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon Instant Video, Spotify, Pandora and YouTube right on your television, and perhaps most powerful of all — it will soon stream it all to you on any mobile device located anywhere there is an Internet connection.

That puts TiVo’s Roamio well ahead of the behind-the-times set-top boxes and DVRs rented out by the cable company. Customers have clamored for a device that can properly record scheduled programs and allow those recordings to be viewed anywhere the customer wants to watch. Comcast’s box doesn’t work that way. Neither do boxes from Time Warner Cable, Cox, Bright House, and the rest.

Comcast-LogoCue the lawyers.

The reason these common sense portability features are not available on the box you rent in perpetuity from the cable company is that programmers won’t allow it and many pay television providers don’t consider it a priority. Time Warner Cable only recently filed a patent to deliver customer-recorded content to portable devices. The patent application is an exercise to placate litigious programmers that cannot sleep nights knowing someone is offering a service they failed to monetize for themselves through licensing agreements. Feel the legal fees piling up:

“Because of the increasing popularity of home networking, there is a growing need for a strategy that enables a user to perform authorized transfer of protected content, e.g., transferring content from an STT [set-top terminal] to a second device in a home network, and at the same time prevents unauthorized distribution of the protected content,” Time Warner writes in its patent application.

While TiVo is selling a device that allows consumers to record programming for private viewing purposes, a cable operator with deep pockets that only rents DVRs cannot do likewise.

The Roamio comes in three versions, none of which are compatible with satellite television services:

      • Roamio Pro ($600): Six tuners allow customers to record up to six shows at one time and has storage capacity for 450 hours of HD programming. Includes built-in Wi-Fi. Stream TV to mobile iOS devices coming soon (as is Android support);
      • Roamio Plus ($400): Same as above except storage capacity is 150 hours of HD programming;
        Roamio ($200): Four tuner basic version omits built-in streaming to mobile devices but can record four shows at once and store 75 hours of HD programming. A good choice for cord-cutters as it includes an over-the-air broadcast television antenna input.
      • All Roamio devices require TiVo service, which costs $15 a month or $500 for a lifetime subscription. All boxes support external hard drives with an eSATA interface to backup or store more recordings. All Roamio devices support 1080p and Dolby Digital 5.1 sound.
This Comcast DVR is only available for rent.

This Comcast DVR is only available for rent.

In contrast, cable operator-provided DVR service can often add $20 a month to your cable bill… forever. But is there real value for money paying TiVo $15 a month (or a $500 payment for the life of the device) for “service” on top of hardware that can cost up to $600?

TiVo thinks so: “Once you bring together all your favorite shows, movies and music into one place, you’ll wonder how you ever lived without it.”

Unfortunately, getting there is one heck of a battle according to Bloomberg’s Rich Jaroslovsky, who got his hands on a test unit that simply refused to get along well with Comcast.

“The cable industry is standing in the way,” Jaroslovsky writes.

That may not be surprising, considering the lucrative business of renting DVR equipment to customers eager for time-shifting and commercial-skipping. The cable company’s concept of DVR service includes a set-top box, decoder, and recording unit into one, relatively simple integrated device.

TiVo’s persistent monthly “service fee” as well as a steep purchase price made marketing the cable company’s “no-purchase-required” DVR easy, and the cable industry quickly won the lion’s share of the DVR business. Another strong argument in favor of the cable company’s DVR is the lack of a complicated set up procedure to get competing devices to reliably work with the cable company’s set-top box.

Motorola's M CableCARD

Motorola’s M CableCARD

Thanks to Comcast and other cable companies, setting up Roamio managed to confound even a tech reporter like Jaroslovsky, and Comcast was not much help.

The Roamio requires a CableCARD, a plug-in card-sized version of the cable company’s set-top box, to unlock digital cable channels.

The CableCARD was Congress’ attempt in the 1996 Telecom Act to give consumers an option to avoid costly and unsightly set-top boxes. Originally envisioned as a plug-in device that would offer “cable-ready” service without a set-top box in future generations of televisions, the CableCARD never really took off. The cable industry opposed the devices and dragged its feet, preferring to support its own set-top boxes. The CableCARD that eventually did emerge was initially often difficult to obtain and had huge limitations, such as one-way-only access which meant no electronic program guide, no video-on-demand, and no access to anything that required two-way communications between the card and the cable company. Newer CableCARDs do offer two-way communications and support today’s advanced cable services.

The only place most cable operators mention the availability of the CableCARD in detail is in a federally mandated disclosure of pricing, services, and a consumer’s rights and responsibilities — usually provided in a rice-paper-thin, tiny-print leaflet included with your bill once a year, if you still get one in the mail.

Roamio is likely to frighten technophobes right from the start with this important notification:

CableCARDs are made by one of four manufacturers: Motorola, Scientific Atlanta/Cisco, NDS, or Conax. You need one multi-stream CableCARD (M-card). Single-stream CableCARDs (S-cards) are not compatible.

“That costs an extra $1.50 a month from Comcast, and in my case, required three trips to its nearest office because the first card didn’t work,” Jaroslovsky writes.

On the second trip, Comcast handed him two cards in the hope at least one would work, requiring one last trip to return the card that didn’t.

Time Warner Cable and certain other cable operators use Switched Digital Video, incompatible with the Roamio.

Time Warner Cable and certain other cable operators use Switched Digital Video, incompatible with the Roamio without a Digital Tuning Adapter, available from the cable company.

The second hurdle was to get Comcast to recognize and authorize that CableCARD. Comcast’s technical customer support staff was lacking. Jaroslovsky found his call bounced from department to department attempting to authorize the card and diagnose why it simply refused to work at first.

After finally overcoming those problems, Jaroslovsky discovered he was out of luck getting Roamio to stream premium movie channels like HBO and Cinemax. The encryption system Comcast supports prohibits streaming the movie networks outside of the home. The Slingbox works around the issue by bypassing the encryption system’s permission settings with extra cables between it and your cable box.

Time Warner Cable subscribers will need still another piece of equipment — a Tuning Adapter compatible with Switched Digital Video (SDV). To conserve bandwidth, cable companies like Time Warner limit certain digital channels being sent to each neighborhood unless someone is actively watching.

Before you can view or record a program on an SDV channel, your box must be able to send channel requests back to the cable headend. Roamio is a one-way device and cannot send the required channel requests. Cable providers who have deployed SDV technology will provide a Tuning Adapter to customers who have HD TiVo boxes. A Tuning Adapter is a set top box that provides two-way capabilities, so your box can request SDV channels. There are two Tuning Adapter brands: Motorola and Cisco. Motorola CableCARDs work with Motorola Tuning Adapters. Scientific Atlanta and NDS CableCARD work with Cisco Tuning Adapters. Without the Tuning Adapter, a Roamio user will find error messages on several digital channels indicating they are “temporarily unavailable.”

Other cable operators offer varying support for Roamio. Cablevision has been learning how to support the device along with customers. Prior customer experiences make it clear front-line service representatives are not going to be very helpful managing the technical process to properly configure, update, and authorize CableCARD technology for the new TiVo device, so prepare to have your call transferred to one or more representatives.

After all this, Jaroslovsky was finally watching his Comcast cable channels, able to access on-demand services, and found TiVo’s interface and program guide more satisfying than the one offered on Comcast’s DVR.

Roamio Plus and Pro have built-in support for video streaming away from home that will be fully enabled this fall.

Jaroslovsky found in-home streaming smooth and satisfying. Programs launched quickly and looked terrific on an iPad with Apple’s high-resolution Retina display, with none of the blockiness or stuttering sometimes associated with streaming video.

His review unit allowed him to test streamed programming outside of the home and video quality on the go was much more variable. The current software prohibits video streaming on AT&T’s 4G LTE network, a problem with a resolution now in the works. Public Wi-Fi hotspots often delivered poor performance, even when they could supply up to 2Mbps. Blurred pictures and pixel blocks often broke up the video on slow Internet connections. A faster connection supporting more than 10Mbps is capable of delivering a better viewing experience, especially if that connection comes without usage caps.

[flv width=”640″ height=”380″]http://www.phillipdampier.com/video/TiVo Roamio DVR Demo Video 8-19-13.flv[/flv]

An introduction and demo of the TiVo Roamio DVR, produced by TiVo. (3 minutes)

This article was updated with a clarification about Tuning Adapters, required by some cable operators using Switched Digital Video. Thanks to reader Dave Hancock for helping clear things up.

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Dave Hancock
Dave Hancock
10 years ago

Phillip, In the following section: “Time Warner Cable subscribers will need still another piece of equipment — a digital tuning adapter (DTA) compatible with Switched Digital Video (SDV). To conserve bandwidth, cable companies like Time Warner limit certain digital channels being sent to each neighborhood unless someone is actively watching. Roamio itself cannot ask Time Warner’s network for those channels, so the customer ends up with an error message indicating one or more channels are temporarily unavailable. A tuning adapter that can handle the request is required. Unfortunately, some of these devices are not HD compatible, compromising the video quality… Read more »

BenJF3
BenJF3
10 years ago

Good luck trying to get a CableCard to work with Time Warner Cable. It’s been an absolute NIGHTMARE! They just keep saying it won’t do HD and I need a set top box. They are clueless. I’m about to return my Ceton infin6 ETH and just cancel AGAIN!

John
John
10 years ago
Reply to  BenJF3

It took me over a month from when I bought my Tivo last year to when I was finally able to watch every channel with a cablecard and tuning adapter.

I finally had to tweet the time warner twitter page, they seem to be the only techs that are knowledgeable.

Dave Hancock
Dave Hancock
10 years ago
Reply to  John

A real problem with TWC (actually it is even worse with others such as Comcast, Verizon FiOS & etc.) is that CSRs have no technical background at all and are only supposed to work with scripts. The scripts are quite deficient when it comes to thinks like CableCards, or QAM tuners & etc. The only way to get real help with TWC is if you can get to 3rd level support (and they make it hard to get there) or get an actual TWC technician (not a contractor) to your house.

Mark in St Paul
Mark in St Paul
10 years ago

I have never been a fan of Comcast but I have to say this went really well. On September 18 I purchased a TiVo Roamio at a local Best Buy. I had looked at the Comcast website and, while they mentioned cable cards, I could not fine any definitive info on how one would work or what it would cost. Fearing technical issues and/or exorbitant charges I selected the base TiVo with OTA capability in case I needed a fall back. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that Comcast would GIVE me a cable card and that they would not… Read more »

sdnative
sdnative
10 years ago

FCC law as of just a few years ago now requires ALL cable companies to provide a SDV tuning adapter free of charge and make Cablecards available over the counter. Cable customers are now allowed to do their own installation of this equipment where before, many cable companies had a MANDATORY installation charge (which is greedy robbery). Cox Cable was one of those that wouldn’t allow you do do your own install of these two simple devices and charged about $70! An installer was required to come out just for that! I refused to pay that and left my Tivo… Read more »

Tony
Tony
10 years ago

It has been 5 months since I purchased a TiVo Roamio Pro and Charter our provider has still not updated our Cisco Tuning Adapter’s firmware so we do not get premium channels and most of the digital channels. At times, we do not even get analog channels. We are also unable to record 6 channels at once. We have wasted over two dozen in-home tech visits, countless hours and hours on the phone and sending emails. All we get from Charter is “we are working on it.” I was so frustrated I filed a complaint with the FCC to which… Read more »

Eric
Eric
10 years ago
Reply to  Tony

Tony, I too have Charter and have read several postings (on other blogs) regarding their failure to properly provide support for adapters required for TiVo. I would really like to drop their DVR, but feel I am pretty much stuck if I want to enjoy all of the channels that I am paying for. I also understand that TiVo does not play well (if at all) with Charter On Demand.

Please update your post if you manage to get anything resolved. Good Luck!

Tony
Tony
9 years ago
Reply to  Eric

We finally received a tuning adapter that was updated and actually works. It took over 6 months for success! It still amazes me every time I see a Charter commercial touting their excellent customer service, talk about “untruths in advertising”…

KF
KF
9 years ago
Reply to  Tony

Tony, I also have Charter and have not been able to get On Demand (VOD) to work through the Roamio. Charter insists that VOD is impossible with the Roamio. Are you able to access VOD through your Roamio with Charter, and if so was there a specific solution you used?

Tony
Tony
9 years ago
Reply to  KF

We cannot use On Demand (VOD) via Roamio.

It is maddening.

Vikki Karan
9 years ago
Reply to  Tony

Count me in!! I’m willing to take this cause on as well! Willing to take it all the way to DC and/or file a class action suit. Here is my story: Major TWC issues with TiVo here in Los Angeles. We keep getting V52 errors. TWC says it is an issue with the TiVo Roamio. That there are open tickets all over LA. Have had about 10 cable guys out to the house over 6 months in attempts to resolve. After a series of band new cable cards and tuning adapters verdict from TWC supervisor is we are out of… Read more »

Tony
Tony
9 years ago
Reply to  Vikki Karan

As frustrating as it is, I can tell you from our experience it is the cable company

For us the tuning adapter’s firmware was not up to date.

Current Firmware was: PKEY1.5.2_F.p.1601

We needed at least: 1.5.2.2801

Cisco’s newest at the time was 1.5.3.1101.

Once our cable company did that, which took forever, we were fine.

Now, our tuning adapter has gone out twice now and had to be replaced, but I believe that is because these tuning adapters are junk technology.

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Peter Randrup
Peter Randrup
9 years ago

What about people like me who are not wealthy? I’m on disability and can’t afford satellite TV service…and I get free cable with my rent. That means I’m screwed because the DVR is NOT actually a proper replacement for the VCR. VCR’s could be purchased anywhere in a consumer electronics store for a reasonable price. Today DVR’s are being held hostage by service providers – if you don’t purchase their expensive TV package “NO DVR FOR YOU” and no recording of your favorite TV programs! And there are no other affordable 3-4 tuner devices that do the same. I’m looking… Read more »

RG
RG
9 years ago
Reply to  Peter Randrup

Peter, I’ve heard the same thing…that a Tivo can work albeit without the on-screen channel and recording guide which is a big feature to give up if you do a lot of recording. That means the only way to record is to do what they call a manual recording. Manually entering the start time and stop time and the channel. You may also have to rent a CableCard since it has a slot for it. Mine costs $3/month with Cox Cable.

Therese
Therese
9 years ago

Just FYI, here in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles, CA, Time Warner is switching (per their letter to me) to all-encrypted SDV as of August 19th. I just bought a Tivo Roamio thinking it would be better than my Series 2 2-tuner DVR, but that was only part of the story. I also use a PHD-VRX set top box to view cable TV on a video monitor; it was cheaper and more convenient than getting a HDTV because I couldn’t find a TV small enough for my purposes and because it was cheaper and more versatile because I… Read more »

Dave Hancock
Dave Hancock
9 years ago
Reply to  Therese

In this right:

” Time Warner is switching (per their letter to me) to all-encrypted SDV as of August 19th.”?

I question the “SDV” part. Generally, it is said that TW is moving away from the use of SDV (Switched Digital Video). None of the popular channels have been on SDV and those channels on SDV have generally been encrypted already. So if the quoted statement is true, you have no sweat.

I would think that they may well be switching all DIGITAL signals (those using a QAM tuner) to encrypted. If that is correct, then your concern is valid.

Bob Mc
Bob Mc
9 years ago

Have to say that there was no problem with Brighthouse (Florida, Merritt Island) in setting up my new TIVO Roamio Plus with the M-card and tuning adapter. Did have a bad tuning adapter initially that was replaced at no cost by one of the BH techs, but once the TA was changed out, everything worked fine. It’s been almost six months now and is working smoothly, so I now want to get rid of the DVR provided by BH ($8/month) and “DVR services” at $11.95/month for a total savings of $20.00. Only problem is that I can’t get a straight… Read more »

Chris
Chris
9 years ago
Reply to  Bob Mc

No the DVR service that Brighthouse is charging is for their DVR box, it will in no way affect the Tivo.

RG
RG
9 years ago
Reply to  Chris

You can thank the greedy cable companies for that. Cox for one, was supposed to support VOD on the Premiere with an agreement signed with Tivo about 4 years ago. It never happened. They think we might actually miss their VOD enough to keep renting there OEM cable box. I’m happy to report I haven’t missed their box one bit. Getting Netflix on demand and Amazon streaming has been OK with me.

Vikki Karan
9 years ago

Major TWC issues with TiVo here in Los Angeles. We keep getting V52 errors. TWC says it is an issue with the TiVo Roamio. That there are open tickets all over LA. Have had about 10 cable guys out to the house over 6 months in attempts to resolve. After a series of band new cable cards and tuning adapters verdict from TWC supervisor is we are out of luck till TWC figures out how to solve Roamio issue. Problem is signal fluctuates too much for TiVo to continually get premium channels. TiVos answer is TWC is required to provide… Read more »

RG
RG
9 years ago
Reply to  Vikki Karan

I see the V52 on occasion with Cox in San Diego. Sometimes it’s a SDV box decode error, other times it’s a channel that I’m not subscribed to or doesn’t exist. But it’s a rare occurrence. Also it’s not a Roamio-specific issue since I have the Premiere.

Chris
Chris
9 years ago

Brighthouse (Name for Time Warner in Florida) encrypted all the local channels October 15, 2014. I suspect that is what your letter was referring to. Unfortunately, I did not receive any warning other than that they were going “All Digital”. Comcast went All Digital years ago and still retained their ClearQAM channels, so I was only expecting some channels to move around as analogs were dropped (they did move several channels around a couple months back). The first channel simply disappeared [in the middle of recording a show] between 3:30 and 4:00 AM and by 8 PM (Prime Time), everything… Read more »

Beth
Beth
9 years ago

I have just spent the weekend with the same issues. I have a Roamio pro and Charter cable. First, I must give props to the techs, they did try hard. It is fortunate that I am a big googler and found the answers on tivocommunity.com. First off, the Roamio will not work with the Cisco cablecards, series pkm803 OS ver PKEY 1.5.2.3001. We did not find a work around. Charter tried many times to send the firmware update, but no dice. The solution is the OLD green scientific atlantica cablecard series PKM800, os ver PKEY1.5.3.1101. This is almost impossible to… Read more »

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