Comments on: Frontier DSL: “Slow, Low Quality, and Priced Significantly Higher Than Verizon” Says Expert Hired By WV Consumer Advocate http://stopthecap.com/2009/11/19/frontier-dsl-slow-low-quality-and-priced-significantly-higher-than-verizon-says-expert-hired-by-wv-consumer-advocate/ Promoting Better Broadband, Fighting Data Caps, Usage-Based Billing, & Other Internet Overcharging Schemes Thu, 24 May 2012 17:28:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: chuck http://stopthecap.com/2009/11/19/frontier-dsl-slow-low-quality-and-priced-significantly-higher-than-verizon-says-expert-hired-by-wv-consumer-advocate/#comment-12318 chuck Tue, 21 Sep 2010 20:13:34 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=6007#comment-12318 OMG, frontier is horrible!! When i signed up for verizon dsl i asked straight up if it was 1.5Mbps or 1.5MBps, i was told bytes. i have had 12 techs from verizon on due to my 185KBps transfer rate, which is correct if it was Kbps(bits) not bytes. I was told over and over again that i should be getting atleast 1000K down and that 185 is terrible. Eight and a half months later, 3 months after frontier takes over i am told that 185KB a sec is 1598Mbps, which is the correct speed, OMG its slow! last 2 months i was at 650KB and was told it was still not fast enough for me, then BOOM, its all the sudden correct and i get dropped to 185KB. In my life of having broadband i have never paid so much for such a slow service. I still complaining to them about being told and promised more speed for 8 and a half months then told we slowing you down to normal, grrr, when will the lies and headaches end? My first verizon dsl i got 500KB on a 640 speedstream, now i pay 10 more a month and get 4 times less the speed, ugh...I load the pages with dialup almost as fast LOL. OMG, frontier is horrible!! When i signed up for verizon dsl i asked straight up if it was 1.5Mbps or 1.5MBps, i was told bytes. i have had 12 techs from verizon on due to my 185KBps transfer rate, which is correct if it was Kbps(bits) not bytes. I was told over and over again that i should be getting atleast 1000K down and that 185 is terrible. Eight and a half months later, 3 months after frontier takes over i am told that 185KB a sec is 1598Mbps, which is the correct speed, OMG its slow! last 2 months i was at 650KB and was told it was still not fast enough for me, then BOOM, its all the sudden correct and i get dropped to 185KB. In my life of having broadband i have never paid so much for such a slow service. I still complaining to them about being told and promised more speed for 8 and a half months then told we slowing you down to normal, grrr, when will the lies and headaches end? My first verizon dsl i got 500KB on a 640 speedstream, now i pay 10 more a month and get 4 times less the speed, ugh…I load the pages with dialup almost as fast LOL.

]]> By: Cal http://stopthecap.com/2009/11/19/frontier-dsl-slow-low-quality-and-priced-significantly-higher-than-verizon-says-expert-hired-by-wv-consumer-advocate/#comment-12073 Cal Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:55:59 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=6007#comment-12073 Frontier is horrible. I get better speeds on dial up (which I guess I will go back to this week) Also I am going to start telling everyone I know to NOT use Frontier. What a nightmare service. Frontier is horrible. I get better speeds on dial up (which I guess I will go back to this week) Also I am going to start telling everyone I know to NOT use Frontier. What a nightmare service.

]]> By: Max Doty http://stopthecap.com/2009/11/19/frontier-dsl-slow-low-quality-and-priced-significantly-higher-than-verizon-says-expert-hired-by-wv-consumer-advocate/#comment-8465 Max Doty Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:16:34 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=6007#comment-8465 I have had frontier for years and have ALWAYS been disappointed in their service. The DSL is considerably slower than any network I have been on and they cannot or will not improve it. It is a step above dial up but barely. I have attempted to purchase higher speeds but they said it is as fast as they can provide. A speed test shows my Internet at 1 MBS DOwnload and .63 Upload. this varies from time to time and sometimes its much slower particularly in the evenings (which was not supposed to happen to DSL if you remember the advertisements from years past). Frontier is behind the times with regards to Internet connect-ability the problem is they have a monopoly and no-one can shop for faster more reliable DSL in this area. Very Frustrating I have had frontier for years and have ALWAYS been disappointed in their service. The DSL is considerably slower than any network I have been on and they cannot or will not improve it. It is a step above dial up but barely. I have attempted to purchase higher speeds but they said it is as fast as they can provide. A speed test shows my Internet at 1 MBS DOwnload and .63 Upload. this varies from time to time and sometimes its much slower particularly in the evenings (which was not supposed to happen to DSL if you remember the advertisements from years past). Frontier is behind the times with regards to Internet connect-ability the problem is they have a monopoly and no-one can shop for faster more reliable DSL in this area. Very Frustrating

]]> By: Stop the Cap! » Frontier DSL: “Slow, Low Quality, and Priced … Blue by about http://stopthecap.com/2009/11/19/frontier-dsl-slow-low-quality-and-priced-significantly-higher-than-verizon-says-expert-hired-by-wv-consumer-advocate/#comment-7785 Stop the Cap! » Frontier DSL: “Slow, Low Quality, and Priced … Blue by about Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:31:53 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=6007#comment-7785 [...] Stop the Cap! » Frontier DSL: “Slow, Low Quality, and Priced … By admin | category: broadband dsl service | tags: conclusion, dsl, extensive-review, [...] [...] Stop the Cap! » Frontier DSL: “Slow, Low Quality, and Priced … By admin | category: broadband dsl service | tags: conclusion, dsl, extensive-review, [...]

]]> By: Parts of Michigan may soon be in a “broadband ghetto” « The Michigan Telephone blog http://stopthecap.com/2009/11/19/frontier-dsl-slow-low-quality-and-priced-significantly-higher-than-verizon-says-expert-hired-by-wv-consumer-advocate/#comment-7636 Parts of Michigan may soon be in a “broadband ghetto” « The Michigan Telephone blog Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:14:18 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=6007#comment-7636 [...] Frontier DSL: “Slow, Low Quality, and Priced Significantly Higher Than Verizon” Says Expert Hire... [...] [...] Frontier DSL: “Slow, Low Quality, and Priced Significantly Higher Than Verizon” Says Expert Hire… [...]

]]> By: al bell http://stopthecap.com/2009/11/19/frontier-dsl-slow-low-quality-and-priced-significantly-higher-than-verizon-says-expert-hired-by-wv-consumer-advocate/#comment-7635 al bell Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:03:56 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=6007#comment-7635 Posted by al bell | November 19, 2009 - 6:55pm You should read the testimony from the DOD on this sale from the WV puc. http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/WebDocket/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=283727&NotType='WebDocket' I would suspect that the unions and other telco's would be against the deal by the US Army? Some have said that more than 10% of the employees in WV have retired since this deal was announced in MAY. Where will Verizon/Frontier get the experienced people to replace these people? Then again why did they retire? Posted by al bell | November 19, 2009 – 6:55pm
You should read the testimony from the DOD on this sale from the WV puc.
http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/WebDocket/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=283727&NotType='WebDocket‘

I would suspect that the unions and other telco’s would be against the deal by the US Army?

Some have said that more than 10% of the employees in WV have retired since this deal was announced in MAY. Where will Verizon/Frontier get the experienced people to replace these people? Then again why did they retire?

]]> By: Ian L http://stopthecap.com/2009/11/19/frontier-dsl-slow-low-quality-and-priced-significantly-higher-than-verizon-says-expert-hired-by-wv-consumer-advocate/#comment-7628 Ian L Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:48:01 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=6007#comment-7628 Playing Devil's Advocate here: 1. Verizon is not thinking seriously about actually expanding their DSL presence. Their tier pricing reflects this; they'll do a little bit to push DSL out into COs, but other than removing bridged taps they aren't going to invest mega-bucks into making sure everyone has DSL. Since they're expending less effort on DSL, their expenses are lower. Since their expenses are lower, their pricing can be lower. 2. Frontier's caps were repealed several months back, before they upgraded their network to 10 Gbps. Frontier, according to the numbers, was actually experiencing backbone congestion before the upgrade, hence the attempted capping. They then decided that upgrading from OSNET OC-48 to 10 Gbit ethernet would be a better idea, and made that upgrade. They now don't have caps prominently displayed, and thus probably will never enforce them. Their low speeds will do a decent job at that. 3. While Frontier's WV speeds do indeed suck, you have to wonder whether there's any fiber in their WV network currently. If not, then they're probably relying on a T3 or two to provide service to large numbers of WV DSL customers. That's not a lot of bandwidth to go around; my wireless ISP back home has about 1500 customers sharing a T3 with packages between 512 and 2048 kbps, with 25 or 35 GB caps on all of them. The link is at 70% utilization last I heard, So if there isn't much bandwidth flowing in, fiber is expensive to dig (though Frontier has committed to improving the middle mile) and people don't want caps, low speeds are the only way to do things. Though low upload speeds are rather inexcusable. 4. Servicing rural areas is a more expensive proposition than serving urban and suburban areas. Frontier tends to serve rural areas. So costs (and prices) are higher. 5. Frontier's 10 Mbps service offers up to 1 Mbps up, at least in theory. Playing Devil’s Advocate here:

1. Verizon is not thinking seriously about actually expanding their DSL presence. Their tier pricing reflects this; they’ll do a little bit to push DSL out into COs, but other than removing bridged taps they aren’t going to invest mega-bucks into making sure everyone has DSL. Since they’re expending less effort on DSL, their expenses are lower. Since their expenses are lower, their pricing can be lower.

2. Frontier’s caps were repealed several months back, before they upgraded their network to 10 Gbps. Frontier, according to the numbers, was actually experiencing backbone congestion before the upgrade, hence the attempted capping. They then decided that upgrading from OSNET OC-48 to 10 Gbit ethernet would be a better idea, and made that upgrade. They now don’t have caps prominently displayed, and thus probably will never enforce them. Their low speeds will do a decent job at that.

3. While Frontier’s WV speeds do indeed suck, you have to wonder whether there’s any fiber in their WV network currently. If not, then they’re probably relying on a T3 or two to provide service to large numbers of WV DSL customers. That’s not a lot of bandwidth to go around; my wireless ISP back home has about 1500 customers sharing a T3 with packages between 512 and 2048 kbps, with 25 or 35 GB caps on all of them. The link is at 70% utilization last I heard, So if there isn’t much bandwidth flowing in, fiber is expensive to dig (though Frontier has committed to improving the middle mile) and people don’t want caps, low speeds are the only way to do things. Though low upload speeds are rather inexcusable.

4. Servicing rural areas is a more expensive proposition than serving urban and suburban areas. Frontier tends to serve rural areas. So costs (and prices) are higher.

5. Frontier’s 10 Mbps service offers up to 1 Mbps up, at least in theory.

]]> By: Ian L http://stopthecap.com/2009/11/19/frontier-dsl-slow-low-quality-and-priced-significantly-higher-than-verizon-says-expert-hired-by-wv-consumer-advocate/#comment-7626 Ian L Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:29:13 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=6007#comment-7626 Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a large ILEC Frontier would have to allow CLECs to collocate DSLAMs in their COs. Granted, this doesn't solve DSL issues where most users aren't within 22,000 feet or so of the DSLAM, but as long as you can get enough bandwidth into a given CO (let's say 45 Mbps over a mid-grade wireless link) you should be able to serve at least some customers. I've done a bit of research and you can get a DSLAM for $2000 that can serve 48 customers. A DSL modem is around $50, or a bonded DSL modem + router with Annex M is around $100. Bonded DSL should allow for at least a 5/2 connection out to 15,000 feet, probably beyond. Price the service at $50 per month (plus $15 if you have to use line bonding to get those speeds) and you have a halfway-decent, albeit expensive, internet option in contrast to what Frontier offers. Just thinking out loud here. This may actually not be cost-effective, depending on how much trouble Frontier would give to people trying to collocate in their DSLAM. Correct me if I’m wrong, but as a large ILEC Frontier would have to allow CLECs to collocate DSLAMs in their COs. Granted, this doesn’t solve DSL issues where most users aren’t within 22,000 feet or so of the DSLAM, but as long as you can get enough bandwidth into a given CO (let’s say 45 Mbps over a mid-grade wireless link) you should be able to serve at least some customers.

I’ve done a bit of research and you can get a DSLAM for $2000 that can serve 48 customers. A DSL modem is around $50, or a bonded DSL modem + router with Annex M is around $100. Bonded DSL should allow for at least a 5/2 connection out to 15,000 feet, probably beyond. Price the service at $50 per month (plus $15 if you have to use line bonding to get those speeds) and you have a halfway-decent, albeit expensive, internet option in contrast to what Frontier offers.

Just thinking out loud here. This may actually not be cost-effective, depending on how much trouble Frontier would give to people trying to collocate in their DSLAM.

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