Comments on: Time Warner Cable to Rochester: No Faster Speeds for You! — TWC Upgrading FiOS Cities to Ultra-Wideband Service http://stopthecap.com/2009/10/12/time-warner-cable-to-rochester-no-faster-speeds-for-you-twc-upgrading-fios-cities-to-ultra-wideband-service/ Promoting Better Broadband, Fighting Data Caps, Usage-Based Billing, & Other Internet Overcharging Schemes Sun, 12 Feb 2012 20:06:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Stop the Cap! » Comcast’s Meter Spreads Like a Virus Across the Pacific Northwest; Could ‘Consumption Billing’ Be Next? http://stopthecap.com/2009/10/12/time-warner-cable-to-rochester-no-faster-speeds-for-you-twc-upgrading-fios-cities-to-ultra-wideband-service/comment-page-1/#comment-8471 Stop the Cap! » Comcast’s Meter Spreads Like a Virus Across the Pacific Northwest; Could ‘Consumption Billing’ Be Next? Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:33:04 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=5135#comment-8471 [...] Would Comcast seek to eventually lower today’s 250GB limit?  Perhaps, but there is no evidence of anything imminent.  It has been done before in Canada and sold as a “money-saver,” offered with an “insurance policy” Bell had the chutzpah to suggest “protected” customers from overlimit fees.  Monetizing broadband use is a hot topic for providers seeking enhanced revenue from their broadband divisions.  Time Warner Cable tried to convince customers it would tie revenue earned from its own Internet Overcharging experiment into expansion of their local broadband networks.  That was proven blatantly false when upgrades commenced in areas never part of “the experiment,” while those that were have been bypassed for DOCSIS 3 upgrades. [...] [...] Would Comcast seek to eventually lower today’s 250GB limit?  Perhaps, but there is no evidence of anything imminent.  It has been done before in Canada and sold as a “money-saver,” offered with an “insurance policy” Bell had the chutzpah to suggest “protected” customers from overlimit fees.  Monetizing broadband use is a hot topic for providers seeking enhanced revenue from their broadband divisions.  Time Warner Cable tried to convince customers it would tie revenue earned from its own Internet Overcharging experiment into expansion of their local broadband networks.  That was proven blatantly false when upgrades commenced in areas never part of “the experiment,” while those that were have been bypassed for DOCSIS 3 upgrades. [...]

]]> By: Stop the Cap! » Municipalities: If You Threaten to Build It Yourself, Your Faster Speeds Will Come http://stopthecap.com/2009/10/12/time-warner-cable-to-rochester-no-faster-speeds-for-you-twc-upgrading-fios-cities-to-ultra-wideband-service/comment-page-1/#comment-7224 Stop the Cap! » Municipalities: If You Threaten to Build It Yourself, Your Faster Speeds Will Come Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:06:03 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=5135#comment-7224 [...] and suburban communities across their service areas with fiber optic cable FiOS), Time Warner Cable sees little incentive to raise speeds or upgrade to DOCSIS 3 with a phone company competitor that has no apparent plans to move beyond [...] [...] and suburban communities across their service areas with fiber optic cable FiOS), Time Warner Cable sees little incentive to raise speeds or upgrade to DOCSIS 3 with a phone company competitor that has no apparent plans to move beyond [...]

]]> By: Phillip Dampier http://stopthecap.com/2009/10/12/time-warner-cable-to-rochester-no-faster-speeds-for-you-twc-upgrading-fios-cities-to-ultra-wideband-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6851 Phillip Dampier Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:42:13 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=5135#comment-6851 I still believe a community's willingness to embrace high tech products and services, as well as careers, does have an influence on these things. Austin is a national leader for high tech. Dallas is as well. Looking at some other (closer sized to Rochester) cities like El Paso, Laredo, or even San Antonio, where 7Mbps is the advertised standard speed for Road Runner (and that is also true in a lot of the midwestern/midsouthern regions), and you see they don't give these communities the same speed they do in the largest cities or the most high-tech embracing. That's not a slam against the people who live there -- it's a slam against the perception that people don't want the same fast service wherever they happen to live. You are right that competition is the biggest factor of all, which was partly the point of my contention Rochester isn't getting the upgrade that FiOS cities are. I still believe a community’s willingness to embrace high tech products and services, as well as careers, does have an influence on these things. Austin is a national leader for high tech. Dallas is as well. Looking at some other (closer sized to Rochester) cities like El Paso, Laredo, or even San Antonio, where 7Mbps is the advertised standard speed for Road Runner (and that is also true in a lot of the midwestern/midsouthern regions), and you see they don’t give these communities the same speed they do in the largest cities or the most high-tech embracing. That’s not a slam against the people who live there — it’s a slam against the perception that people don’t want the same fast service wherever they happen to live. You are right that competition is the biggest factor of all, which was partly the point of my contention Rochester isn’t getting the upgrade that FiOS cities are.

]]> By: Ian L http://stopthecap.com/2009/10/12/time-warner-cable-to-rochester-no-faster-speeds-for-you-twc-upgrading-fios-cities-to-ultra-wideband-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6850 Ian L Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:07:15 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=5135#comment-6850 That's a rather prejudiced thing to say. Just because Texas tends to be rather rural doesn't mean that folks are Luddites. Again, I'm pretty sure that central Texas (San Antonio and Austin) have the most competitive non-D3 packages out there price-wise for TWC, outside of maybe NYC. Verizon wouldn't have deployed FiOS in Dallas if they ddn't have a market for it :) Again, services offered in a given area tend to be based first on the company in question and second on the competition that company is facing. Here in the Denver metro you've got Comcast and Qwest. Qwest tends to pick up the low end of the market because they still don't have ADSL2+ or VDSL2 deployed over much of their footprint. As such, you may well end up with a maximum of 3-7 Mbps service for $47 per month if you choose them, though they have promotional offers that will net you dry-line 1.5 Mbps DSL for $30. Comcast doesn't seem to aim at the low-end internet-only market in any of its footprint; 1 Mbps down, 384 kbps up is $35. The next tier up is $55, and things go up from there. 16/2 service here (DOCSIS 3 area) is $65 per month, versus $50 in TWC territory back in Texas (San Antonio and the hill country, not just Austin). Plus Comcast makes you pay for modem rental, something TWC doesn't do. On the other hand, I can get DCSIS 3 service with 5 or 10 Mbps up with Comcast, something you can't do with TWC. So, comparing the two largest cable companies in the US, it seems like TWC prices themselves lower and Comcast prices themselves higher, though (depending on the market) TWC's services fall short of what Comcast offers, particularly on the upload speed side. On the other hand, Time Warner Cable's $35 tier in central Texas is 3 Mbps down, 384 kbps up, triple the download speed of Comcast's equivalently-priced tier, so I guess TWC (with its maximum Turbo price...anywhere...set at around $60) is aiming lower market-wise than Comcast is. That’s a rather prejudiced thing to say.

Just because Texas tends to be rather rural doesn’t mean that folks are Luddites. Again, I’m pretty sure that central Texas (San Antonio and Austin) have the most competitive non-D3 packages out there price-wise for TWC, outside of maybe NYC. Verizon wouldn’t have deployed FiOS in Dallas if they ddn’t have a market for it :)

Again, services offered in a given area tend to be based first on the company in question and second on the competition that company is facing. Here in the Denver metro you’ve got Comcast and Qwest. Qwest tends to pick up the low end of the market because they still don’t have ADSL2+ or VDSL2 deployed over much of their footprint. As such, you may well end up with a maximum of 3-7 Mbps service for $47 per month if you choose them, though they have promotional offers that will net you dry-line 1.5 Mbps DSL for $30.

Comcast doesn’t seem to aim at the low-end internet-only market in any of its footprint; 1 Mbps down, 384 kbps up is $35. The next tier up is $55, and things go up from there. 16/2 service here (DOCSIS 3 area) is $65 per month, versus $50 in TWC territory back in Texas (San Antonio and the hill country, not just Austin). Plus Comcast makes you pay for modem rental, something TWC doesn’t do. On the other hand, I can get DCSIS 3 service with 5 or 10 Mbps up with Comcast, something you can’t do with TWC.

So, comparing the two largest cable companies in the US, it seems like TWC prices themselves lower and Comcast prices themselves higher, though (depending on the market) TWC’s services fall short of what Comcast offers, particularly on the upload speed side. On the other hand, Time Warner Cable’s $35 tier in central Texas is 3 Mbps down, 384 kbps up, triple the download speed of Comcast’s equivalently-priced tier, so I guess TWC (with its maximum Turbo price…anywhere…set at around $60) is aiming lower market-wise than Comcast is.

]]> By: Ian L http://stopthecap.com/2009/10/12/time-warner-cable-to-rochester-no-faster-speeds-for-you-twc-upgrading-fios-cities-to-ultra-wideband-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6848 Ian L Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:52:07 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=5135#comment-6848 Actually, Embarq is decent. They overprovision download and upload speeds so you get the speed advertised, and their upload speeds are relatively decent across the board. Even 768 kbps service has 384 kbps uploads, 3M gets 640K and 10M ADSL2+ is 896K. It's not quite 1 Mbps, but still decent considering we're talking about DSL. Embarq is also experimenting with line bonding, which should net customers 1.5 Mbps uploads and 20 Mbps downloads eventually. They also have fiber in new developments, though the don't offer tiers above 10 Mbps. Actually, Embarq is decent. They overprovision download and upload speeds so you get the speed advertised, and their upload speeds are relatively decent across the board. Even 768 kbps service has 384 kbps uploads, 3M gets 640K and 10M ADSL2+ is 896K. It’s not quite 1 Mbps, but still decent considering we’re talking about DSL.

Embarq is also experimenting with line bonding, which should net customers 1.5 Mbps uploads and 20 Mbps downloads eventually. They also have fiber in new developments, though the don’t offer tiers above 10 Mbps.

]]> By: Smith6612 http://stopthecap.com/2009/10/12/time-warner-cable-to-rochester-no-faster-speeds-for-you-twc-upgrading-fios-cities-to-ultra-wideband-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6845 Smith6612 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:36:22 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=5135#comment-6845 All true. I see that happen all the time where people don't know what a gigabyte is, and those tend to be the same people wondering why the videos I send them are taking nearly two hours to download. For Time Warner, they did perform a node split a little while back which took them a month to complete if I'm not mistaken, so I'm sure they can bump the place up to DOCSIS 3.0 in no time as well as swap out the modem. I'm sure my neighbors would appreciate the upgrades as my neighborhood is a Time Warner neighborhood hence the node split that it needed. All true. I see that happen all the time where people don’t know what a gigabyte is, and those tend to be the same people wondering why the videos I send them are taking nearly two hours to download. For Time Warner, they did perform a node split a little while back which took them a month to complete if I’m not mistaken, so I’m sure they can bump the place up to DOCSIS 3.0 in no time as well as swap out the modem. I’m sure my neighbors would appreciate the upgrades as my neighborhood is a Time Warner neighborhood hence the node split that it needed.

]]> By: Phillip Dampier http://stopthecap.com/2009/10/12/time-warner-cable-to-rochester-no-faster-speeds-for-you-twc-upgrading-fios-cities-to-ultra-wideband-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6841 Phillip Dampier Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:16:49 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=5135#comment-6841 It's amazing how much North Carolina resembles upstate New York economically and culturally. Large parts of upstate are quite conservative and have almost nothing in common with NYC. That may explain why the mass exodus from our area's high taxes takes a large percentage of our residents straight to NC. The taxes are much lower there than here. One thing residents don't get to escape is... Time Warner Cable. :-) I believe you guys have Embarq (soon to be CenturyTel) scattered around down there. If so, you're stuck with your own version of Frontier. If you have AT&T, they are going to work their way towards U-verse, and that should stimulate speed progress there. It’s amazing how much North Carolina resembles upstate New York economically and culturally. Large parts of upstate are quite conservative and have almost nothing in common with NYC.

That may explain why the mass exodus from our area’s high taxes takes a large percentage of our residents straight to NC. The taxes are much lower there than here. One thing residents don’t get to escape is… Time Warner Cable. :-)

I believe you guys have Embarq (soon to be CenturyTel) scattered around down there. If so, you’re stuck with your own version of Frontier. If you have AT&T, they are going to work their way towards U-verse, and that should stimulate speed progress there.

]]> By: Phillip Dampier http://stopthecap.com/2009/10/12/time-warner-cable-to-rochester-no-faster-speeds-for-you-twc-upgrading-fios-cities-to-ultra-wideband-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6840 Phillip Dampier Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:12:21 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=5135#comment-6840 The good thing about TWC's network is that upgrading their network is a lot easier than stringing fiber all over the place. It's a certainty you'd have DOCSIS 3 well before Verizon strings fiber in your area. Frontier will increasingly become a complete non-player in upgraded TWC markets, although there are people out there who honestly have no idea there is a major difference between 3Mbps service and 15Mbps service. They see the Internet as just something to connect to, and do not understand the implications of different broadband speeds. When their service is slow, they will equate that with the "Internet being slow," not their respective provider. I always have to remember that among the masses, there are significant pockets of people who really do not even understand broadband speeds, much less what a gigabyte is. Usually a more knowledgeable relative will give guidance and advice, and will provoke a switch if they visit and discover lousy service when they try and use the Internet. The good thing about TWC’s network is that upgrading their network is a lot easier than stringing fiber all over the place. It’s a certainty you’d have DOCSIS 3 well before Verizon strings fiber in your area.

Frontier will increasingly become a complete non-player in upgraded TWC markets, although there are people out there who honestly have no idea there is a major difference between 3Mbps service and 15Mbps service. They see the Internet as just something to connect to, and do not understand the implications of different broadband speeds. When their service is slow, they will equate that with the “Internet being slow,” not their respective provider.

I always have to remember that among the masses, there are significant pockets of people who really do not even understand broadband speeds, much less what a gigabyte is.

Usually a more knowledgeable relative will give guidance and advice, and will provoke a switch if they visit and discover lousy service when they try and use the Internet.

]]> By: Phillip Dampier http://stopthecap.com/2009/10/12/time-warner-cable-to-rochester-no-faster-speeds-for-you-twc-upgrading-fios-cities-to-ultra-wideband-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6839 Phillip Dampier Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:06:58 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=5135#comment-6839 I like to compare nearby markets when looking at speed and pricing fairness, because Rochester is decidedly more embracing of high tech than most places in Texas, excepting Austin. That's why lots of divisions in Texas and into the midwest and midsouth don't have the speeds we do. Rochester's pricing also accounts for local market conditions. This is a city that is used to paying lower prices for telecommunications services (in part because the enormous taxes that always seem to accompany them boost the out the door price anyway). I don't see too many people ever complain about Road Runner's pricing, which has remained stable and has a strong subscriber base here with loyal customers who have never switched. The upload speed on standard service is way too slow, and is comparable for a more rural market. Part of the reason may be to prevent upload congestion from slowing down the rest of the network. Turbo alleviated the upload issue somewhat, and is frankly a useful addition only for the upload speed increase (going from 10Mbps to 15Mbps is not that big of a difference for most people, but 384kbps to 1Mbps is). Rochester should be providing 10/1 for standard service and 15/2 for Turbo. The DOCSIS 3 upgrade would provide room for a 25/3 and 50/5-type tier. At this point, all I am interested in personally is better upload speed, because uploading content for this site and the other stuff I do is painfully slow even at 1Mbps. I like to compare nearby markets when looking at speed and pricing fairness, because Rochester is decidedly more embracing of high tech than most places in Texas, excepting Austin. That’s why lots of divisions in Texas and into the midwest and midsouth don’t have the speeds we do.

Rochester’s pricing also accounts for local market conditions. This is a city that is used to paying lower prices for telecommunications services (in part because the enormous taxes that always seem to accompany them boost the out the door price anyway).

I don’t see too many people ever complain about Road Runner’s pricing, which has remained stable and has a strong subscriber base here with loyal customers who have never switched.

The upload speed on standard service is way too slow, and is comparable for a more rural market. Part of the reason may be to prevent upload congestion from slowing down the rest of the network. Turbo alleviated the upload issue somewhat, and is frankly a useful addition only for the upload speed increase (going from 10Mbps to 15Mbps is not that big of a difference for most people, but 384kbps to 1Mbps is).

Rochester should be providing 10/1 for standard service and 15/2 for Turbo. The DOCSIS 3 upgrade would provide room for a 25/3 and 50/5-type tier. At this point, all I am interested in personally is better upload speed, because uploading content for this site and the other stuff I do is painfully slow even at 1Mbps.

]]> By: Phillip Dampier http://stopthecap.com/2009/10/12/time-warner-cable-to-rochester-no-faster-speeds-for-you-twc-upgrading-fios-cities-to-ultra-wideband-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6837 Phillip Dampier Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:57:31 +0000 http://stopthecap.com/?p=5135#comment-6837 Verizon simply doesn't overbuild other telco territories. That's really the issue for them. Rochester, in their big picture, is probably too small to consider a buyout offer as well. If Frontier were to ever put the local operation up for sale, I am not even confident Verizon would be interested at that point, either. My personal guess is that we're going to continue to see mergers between the remaining independent telcos until there are one or two left. The largest non-Baby Bell players: Windstream, Frontier, TDS, and CenturyTel will probably end up being just two when it's all over. I suspect CenturyTel and Frontier will most likely be the two remaining players, with Frontier eating up Windstream and CenturyTel absorbing TDS. FairPoint is a dead company walking. Verizon simply doesn’t overbuild other telco territories. That’s really the issue for them. Rochester, in their big picture, is probably too small to consider a buyout offer as well. If Frontier were to ever put the local operation up for sale, I am not even confident Verizon would be interested at that point, either.

My personal guess is that we’re going to continue to see mergers between the remaining independent telcos until there are one or two left. The largest non-Baby Bell players: Windstream, Frontier, TDS, and CenturyTel will probably end up being just two when it’s all over.

I suspect CenturyTel and Frontier will most likely be the two remaining players, with Frontier eating up Windstream and CenturyTel absorbing TDS. FairPoint is a dead company walking.

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